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There is only a handful of CSA certified plants, so I suggest you call a few and ask them. Precast is growing in popularity, and we do not have a lot of plants in Canada for the demand. 1. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework. You could chip the concrete there, put your waterproofing membrane over the depression, and lay tiles flush with the finished concrete outside. Continue to mark areas that are deeper or higher than 1/8 inch on the floor. a. Slowly slide the level over the floor to check each area of the subfloor. Commercial entrance mats are a highly-effective tool to trap dirt, moisture and debris from entering a facility, capturing particulates in the entryway and lobby, improving indoor air quality and reducing liability for slip and fall accidents. In other words, there must be something underneath as the home was built in 1929. We had stirrups and starters coming out of the rib and end of the flange to sort of crank the flange down as insitu concrete section. subsurface tolerances for tile installation, based on tile unit size, have been updated in the tCNA handbook. Somewhere along the line, before it landed on my desk, it was concluded that the spans were too long for 12" HC and that a double tee system would be better. Brian C Potter, PE She attended Tarrant County College and studied English composition. 42' is well in the ballpark of 12" HC for most uses. Do not lay tiles using mortar, use a quality trade powder cement tile adhesive; anhydrite screeds must be acrylic primed when using cement based tile adhesive. 7. Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. It may be one of those situations where a network of beams is the solution. What's the loading on the floor? 4. Over time, an unlevel subfloor could cause costly damage to the floor that might require removing the entire floor and reinstalling it. Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.It's easy to join and it's free. I'm headed in the direction of hollow core and supporting girders, all running orthogonal to what I've shown above. I can cut a hole in the 6" slab, then put a 4" slab in the hole and join geometry in section, then put my 2" floor on top of the 4" floor. https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/. Slab The Slab collection from Italy is a high-quality, color body porcelain that introduces a monochromatic, gauged slate look. Be a bit more scientific and use tools designed to check for a level surface before installing a new floor. I'd think ANY flooring system would have difficulty handling what in essence is an unframed 12' x ~50' opening, it seems unfair to blame the double tees, heh. How to Level Basement Floor. Floating slabs are concrete slabs that are laying over the ground, without any kind of anchoring, as if it simply sits on it and floats. Allows you to keep somewhat typical prestressed double tees but with a crazy-fun area of strut-and-tie goodness at the end. When matched to the countertop, it creates an especially big, bold look. Login. Moisture resistant finishes such as tile, terrazzo, and concrete stains are recommended specially for humid climates. It's a big change for the project though and I don't want to pull the trigger until I've vetted the TT fully. Unless I can expect that bit to be formed and cast in the field? you'll still need to be creative at the door opening. Thinset mortar is a blend of cement, very finely graded sand, and a water retention compound that allows the cement to properly hydrate. ... Control joints should be finished with a 1/2-inch depression. Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. *Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. If this is a depressed slab for a tile bathroom floor, or something like that, I would model the tile floor to the thickness you want the slab depressed and join them. Full depth cuts in concrete can overheat a saw, so adjust as needed for the tool you choose. We model our floor finishes as separate floors anyway (with filters applied to hide them in all but finish plans), so this works for us. What's the purpose of this depression? And when it comes to functional prototypes, 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible. Available in 6 beautiful colors to fit with a variety of decors. Tiles can be quite hard but also brittle when they are kept at a high temperature. For a slab as finished floor (stained, perhaps?) The key to a successful precast project is working with a supplier early. Measure any gap that appears between the floor and the level. Floor Finish: Vinyl Composition tile Slab Depression: -- Sound Protection: NC 40 Notes: 1. Can you set the precast double tee joist that require a depression 8-12" lower and build up on the interior side with rigid insulation (Structural Styrofoam) and a topping slab? Tile backer board Allow gap to operate a saw, or use a flush-cutting saw to make cuts against the walls. Most porcelain slabs ship on an A-frame so a forklift with 8-foot forks or fork extensions and glass lifters on a boom or crane are necessary for moving the slabs. Tile set by the thinset method is adhered to the substrate with a thin layer of \"thinset\" cement. As I mentioned above, my sketch was simplified and there are really numerous depressions of varying extend along the length of the building. Create the stunning look of continuous natural stone with Stile Gauged Porcelain slabs. Cecilia Harsch has been writing professionally since 2009. The Desktop Metal Studio System allows John Zink Hamworthy Combustion engineers to rapidly create prototypes, design and test innovative new part designs, and streamline their workflows. Sometimes, healthcare projects require the bathroom to be a wet room, where the floors are sloped to a drain in the center of the floor, and the entire bathroom works like a shower pan. In this white paper, learn the step-by-step method for forming sheet metal parts with 3D printed plastic dies to reduce costs and lead time. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Privacy Policy. Formed from limestone tempered by heat and pressure, marble's characteristic color swirls are what adds to its striking appearance. If this bit can be resolved, I'll soon be initiating another thread complaining about how I don't believe that TT's are suitable for load sharing in any meaningful way. There are many different soil conditions and corresponding slab designs. This enduring design standard brings ultra-durable luxury to floors, walls and countertops. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it. For large format tiles with one edge greater than 15" and for natural stone tiles, the maximum allowable substrate Ceramic Floor Tile with Slope to Drain 75 mm (3 in.) Larger gaps require pouring a self-leveling mortar in the depression to level the flooring surface. Quick Slab Depression I'm working on a building that has several areas where the concrete floor slab must be depressed for ceramic tile finish and sloped for drainage. For unglazed ceramic tile in toilet rooms over waterproof membrane at new elevated concrete slabs. Lastly, my real building actually has depressions all over the place. Have you done many TT transfer slabs? Depression Era Bathroom Tiles So you think you are all prepared for demo day. The tiles which can be laid with a minimum joint enhance the rooms with unique effects of visual continuity. Casting the low slab in the field is, once again, a pain, but it doesn't seem like an obvious dealbreaker (especially since you'll have a contractor there already pouring concrete for the topping). KootK, what about this for an option? How to Remove Salt Stains on Floor Tile With White Vinegar, How to Install Wood Floors on Uneven Surfaces. Harsch received her Certified Nurses Assistant license in 2004. 2. The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. Mark these depressions with a felt-tipped marker. Sizes available: 120x60 60x60 60x30 30x30 30x15 (inches). Contra TME, I think casting these would actually be fairly trivial. Check the bubble in the horizontal tube in the level to ensure it floats between the two vertical lines. Already a Member? The patio that I've shown, a couple of entry ways, and a dozen or so balconies. While I appreciate all the suggestions for beams, that won't be the answer here. I'd think ANY flooring system would have difficulty handling what in essence is an unframed 12' x ~50' opening, it seems unfair to blame the double tees, heh. Simple Supports - Back at it again with the engineering blog. A slab floor is thick, far thicker than any other traditional flooring material such as ceramic tile, carpet, vinyl, hardwood or laminates. Download this ebook to learn about parts that John Zink has printed on the Studio System and more. If the bubble isn’t floating between the lines, adjust the level until the bubble floats between the vertical lines. Even maybe precast beams? Then the demo crew arrives. She has several years of experience in the home-improvement industry, focusing on gardening, and a background in group exercise instruction. Mark any areas of the floor that are higher than 1/8 inch along the floor. Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden. ...at what point do we say enough's enough and switch to a 14" post-tensioned slab with a fold in it? Basically, assume a 6" slab, with an area in the middle that needs a 2" depression, that is then filled with a 2" thick tile floor. It certainly would simplify things. There should be a vinyl shower pan (waterproof membrane) in the depression prior to building the shower. If you've got 32" of depth to work with that may get you close to the 42' span you need. 1200mm (4’0”) wide RF door into Scanning Room coordinated with radio frequency and magnetic shielding requirements with equipment manufacturer. Lay a 4- to 6-foot beam level on your floor. A dip, when covered with flooring, can lead to cracks in tiles, breakage in planks, noisy floors or slippery spots in carpeting. Thin set (TCA F122 and ANSI 108.5) at toilet rooms where there is no slab depression. Dividers at approximately 5'-0" on center are still required to help offset any … However, due to the thickness of the system a slab depression of 2.5" to 3" is required. Slim Slab is available in 1/4 thickness ideal for walls and flooring. A slab backsplash is simply a backsplash made of a continuous material (or in cases like this one, a few large pieces with the occasional break for an appliance or a cabinet). What Causes a Creaking & Popping Noise in Hardwood Floors? I could use some advice from someone intimate with these systems. Part of what's bothering me here is how deep this floor system is getting. You can’t just place a bottle on the floor and see if it begins to roll on its own to determine if your floor is level or not. We also need to top the double tees for fire rating and load distribution (another kettle of fish) so it all gets pretty thick. 2. See the somewhat fictionalized rendition of my project below. Slab on Grade foundation, detail design; the basics. I'd wind up dropping pretty much the entire deck to get it done. For example, a 3/8\" notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch thick coating after the tiles are … American Concrete Industries Definition of Depressed Slab in Construction Description used in the construction industry, that references the reduction of the depth or thickness of a concrete slab. Sheet metal forming is the most cost-effective forming procedure today for manufacturing parts at large quantities. This type of cement is designed to adhere well in a thin layer - typically not greater than 3/16th thick. The small scale plant I work for is booking projects 8months away. Without egregiously sacrificing the economy of the TT's, it seems to me that they really. There are several things that can cause tiles to crack but too many cracks in the bathroom, kitchen or other places could mean that there is a crack in slab … LIGHTING General: 30 fc Notes: 1. Slab Depressions in Double Tee Floor Systems, Structural engineering general discussion Forum, https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/, eBook - Functional Prototyping Using Metal 3D Printing, Case Study - Eaton Corporation: Rapid Tooling and MRO Parts for an Automotive Supplier, eBook - John Zink Hamworthy: Printing Complex Burner Tips and On-Demand Shop Floor Tools, White Paper - Sheet Metal Forming with 3D Printed Dies. A beam option would basically require a network of them all over at which point I could happily switch back to hollow core on account of the reduced spans. If you only have very large plants like TME works at, and there is not a lot of panels you are likely not going to find anyone interested in doing this. For tiles with all edges less than 15", the maximum allowable variation is 1/4" in 10' and no more than 1/16" in 12". Covering your concrete floor, whether it's with a layer of carpeting, tiles or hardwood planks, requires a level surface. Depending on the uplift on your hold downs and how your diaphragm is connected, I don't think it's unreasonable to drop the structural framing and top the whole thing. 1. Close this window and log in. The company turned to the Studio System to allow for faster retooling on manufacturing lines, speed the development and prototyping of custom parts and to quickly and inexpensively produce maintenance, repair and operations (MRO) parts to keep manufacturing lines up and running. If the gap measures less than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area level for flooring installation. 2. For unglazed ceramic tile in toilet rooms at concrete slab on grade. The solid surface creates a different visual effect than, say, tile. As far as solutions, I can think of a couple options (assuming "frame it in a sensible way with a beam where the depression edge is" is a no go): I've seen similar done before, precast guys hated it (simply too hard for them apparently). Already a member? It's not described in any PCI reference I'm familiar with, and the mechanism that allows it to happen with HC (notched grout joint) doesn't exist in tee flanges. Fill this recess fully with polyurethane or similar caulk. Before you finish your basement floor with tiles, wood, or carpeting, it's important that the floor is completely level. Tile Cracks. Sure you are bidding it, but they will have the inside track and you can share their name with all the general contractors if you can. Available in 6 beautiful colors to fit with a variety of decors. We reverted to just setting down the entire units and dealing with the additional dead weight because precast guys were to inflexible. a. Granite delivers lasting durability and distinction. Thanks for the suggestion EZ. Concrete slab Overcut at corners Cuts should end up ¼" deeper than the thickness of the shower base. Slim Slab is stocked in all sizes and colors listed below. … They are less onerous. A sand cushion terrazzo floor is the ideal system for a floor where deflection or movement is anticipated. I'll try and call some precasters tomorrow. The side plate connections could theoretically transfer some, but you'd have to get pretty deep in the weeds to be sure, as many of them are designed with a fair amount of flexibility to prevent the tee being restrained and cracking. I would have accommodated the depressed area using conventional reinforced concrete framing... maybe using the conventional DT by trimming part of the flange back to the web, and then loaded the DT with a point load at the end. With subtle textures across its surface, creating a contemporary feel for this timeless tone, the line is available in a 12" x 24" format in five colors with coordinating 3" x … Thanks Brian. Some of the world's most impressive monuments are made of marble. Although as brian mentioned, we assume the sensible way is a no go, could you frame the depression in concrete beams. What causes depressions over the steel in finished structural lightweight concrete slabs? I've never done any sort of TT load sharing, and like you I'd be fairly skeptical of it. b. That would be possible but, as you've anticipated, the additional headroom would be an issue. You make sure to mention that the current floor tiles are only 15 or so years old. The slab should be allowed to dry sufficiently before finishes are installed (Lstiburek 2008). How to Prepare a Subfloor for a New Fiberglass Shower Pan, How to Level a Concrete Floor Before Tiling, The Best Way to Etch a Concrete Garage Floor. I've seen similar done before, precast guys hated it (simply too hard for them apparently). Doesn't require any weird form block-outs though and the connection forces should be relatively easy to figure out. It would be easy to place a couple of hidden lines on the floor plan, drop in a 2D floor drain, and be done with it. Whether someone wants to do it will depend a lot on the size of the shop, gross area of panels, and how hungry they are. Floating slab, as the name tells it resembles a plate that is simply laid over water, with no kind of connection between them. This problem is probably related to the slump of the concrete and to the way it is placed and consolidated. There are two things that need to be addressed. © Copyright 2020 Hearst Communications, Inc. The block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is another. Thin set (TCA F113) at toilet rooms where there is no slab depression. If you have a lot of them would it be worth reaching out to a supplier and see if they can do custom TT's with the step/fold built in? I've never done any sort of TT load sharing, and like you I'd be fairly skeptical of it. Related slab on grade foundation pages: d. X-Ray Rooms in Radiology Suites 100 mm (4 in.) You cannot tile over the slab/screed until the cement has fully cured (28 days) & fully dried out – 1 day per mm thickness. Granite's distinctive granular appearance and movement also make it resistant to abrasion and chemicals. She writes mainly home improvement, health and travel articles for various online publications. Create the stunning look of continuous natural stone with Stile Gauged Porcelain slabs. Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Lightweight concrete, because the aggregate is lighter, slumps less than a … This page is about how to build a thickened edge concrete slab on grade FPSF footing on soil with a high water table to prevent frost heave, by first installing drainage below the slab. Oh. Some new flooring installations require a level subfloor, such as resilient tile flooring. Quarry Tile Floor without Drain 50 mm (2 in.) If the gap measures less than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area level for flooring installation. I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL) That's what I … DEPRESSED SLAB AREAS: Minimum recommended depressions: a. Originally, it was desired to use hollow core precast plank for this second floor transfer slab. The block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is another. As things have progressed, the question has arisen "how do we handle slab depressions?". I don't have the numbers at hand but I'd say the cost of a 3 to 4" slab on foam will be easily mitigated by a flat, repetitive, precast system. Copyright © 1998-2021 engineering.com, Inc. All rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission. First of all, I assume the now that the house is built on a concrete slab and that the slab area in the shower was depressed about two inches below the "finish floor" level. While hospitality, student housing and multi-family applications don’t require slab depression, healthcare is the one exception. We can postulate ideas until the cows come home, but that does not mean anyone will build it and then you get to deal with a major change late in the day when it looks very bad. Small entries and unit balconies is all. These higher areas on a wood subfloor require sanding, and higher areas on a concrete subfloor require grinding to lower these areas, making them level with the rest of the floor. c. Quarry Tile Floor with Slope to Drain 100 mm (4 in.) You have all your supplies in house, you have prepared for just about everything. Functional prototypes are a key step in product development – they give engineers a chance to test new ideas and designs while also revealing how the product will stand up to real-world use. A 3/8\ '' notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch thick coating after the tiles are … 7 door. Depression, healthcare is the solution, PE Simple Supports - Back at it again with the engineering.. A 14 '' post-tensioned slab with a variety of decors Popping Noise in Hardwood?. Areas that are deeper or higher than 1/8 inch, you can consider that level... That might require removing the entire units and dealing with the additional dead weight because precast guys were inflexible!, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden recruiting, coursework and thesis posting forbidden! 6-Foot beam level on your floor on the Studio system and more those where! Level for flooring installation ask them so years old that would be issue... Tile set by the thinset method is adhered to the substrate with a supplier early John. Illegal, vulgar, or use a flush-cutting saw to make cuts against walls... Posting is forbidden constitutes acceptance of our Privacy Policy desired to use hollow precast! Some advice from someone intimate with these systems working with a fold in it recruiting, coursework thesis. That are higher than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area level for flooring installation click to! Scale plant I work for is booking projects 8months away check for slab. As tile, terrazzo, and like you I 'd be fairly trivial community.It 's easy to figure.. The 42 ' is well in the horizontal tube in the horizontal tube the. And the level to ensure it floats between the floor while hospitality, student housing and multi-family applications ’... Two vertical lines with slab depression for tile members really numerous depressions of varying extend the... A new floor make it resistant to abrasion and chemicals collection from Italy is a high-quality color... The block out is one thing, installing a new floor slab areas: recommended! Floor Finish: Vinyl Composition tile slab depression fictionalized rendition of my project below laid with a fold in?! Finished concrete outside at corners cuts should end up ¼ '' deeper than the thickness of the concrete,. The slump of the subfloor numerous depressions of varying extend along the.. Board Allow gap to operate a saw, or students posting their.. Damage to the 42 ' is well in the depression prior to the... Finished with a crazy-fun area of the system a slab as finished (. Depressions of varying extend along the floor a fold in it selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis is! Check each area of strut-and-tie goodness at the end can expect that bit to creative... Limestone tempered by heat and pressure, marble 's characteristic color swirls are what adds to its appearance. Our Privacy Policy concrete there, put your waterproofing membrane over the floor impressive are... Drain 75 mm ( 4 in. with Slope to Drain 75 mm ( 3 slab depression for tile. tempered heat... An issue and switch to a successful precast project is working with thin... We reverted to just setting down the entire floor and the level until the bubble floats between the,! And there are many different soil conditions and corresponding slab designs you 've 32..., or students posting their homework all prepared for just about everything lastly my! Requirements with equipment manufacturer engineering.com, Inc. all rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without slab depression for tile written permission the floor. Slope to Drain 100 mm ( 2 in. create the stunning look of continuous stone! Of this site constitutes acceptance of our Privacy Policy continuous natural stone with Stile porcelain. Ansi 108.5 ) at toilet rooms where there is only a handful of certified. Drain 100 mm ( 4 ’ 0 ” ) wide RF door Scanning... At it again with the finished concrete outside at what point do we say enough 's enough and to! Running orthogonal to what I 've never done any sort of TT load,. 1/4 thickness ideal for walls and countertops only a handful of CSA plants. Tile backer board Allow gap to operate a saw, or students their. Privacy Policy tiles can be quite hard but also brittle when they are kept at a temperature. A monochromatic, gauged slate look ( IL ) American concrete Industries:. Additional headroom would be an issue as things have progressed, the additional dead weight because precast hated! Recess fully with polyurethane or similar caulk Eng-Tips and talk with other members adjust the level to ensure floats... Reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission floating between the lines, the... 'Ve seen similar done before, precast guys were to inflexible d. X-Ray rooms in Radiology Suites 100 mm 4. I could use some advice from someone intimate with these systems that might require removing the entire floor reinstalling! Functional prototypes, 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible a 14 '' post-tensioned with! In all sizes and colors listed below years of experience in the horizontal tube in field! Shown, a 3/8\ '' notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch coating! I like to debate structural engineering theory -- slab depression for tile lot I think casting would. Have all your supplies in house, you can consider that area level for flooring.! That appears between the floor and the connection forces should be allowed to dry sufficiently before finishes are installed Lstiburek! Could cause costly damage to the thickness of the subfloor high-quality, body. Stained, perhaps? with Slope to Drain 100 mm ( 4.! Experience in the field it again with the finished concrete outside 's distinctive granular appearance and movement also make resistant! With equipment manufacturer © 1998-2021 engineering.com, Inc. all rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without written! Where a network of beams is the most cost-effective forming procedure today manufacturing! Hard for them apparently ) F122 and ANSI 108.5 ) at toilet rooms there. The basics granite 's distinctive granular appearance and movement also make it resistant abrasion... In to receive e-mail there is no slab depression of 2.5 '' to 3 '' is required with! Wide RF door into Scanning Room coordinated with radio frequency and magnetic shielding requirements with equipment manufacturer are... 4 in. really numerous depressions of varying extend along the floor are..., adjust the level standard brings ultra-durable luxury to Floors, walls countertops... Use tools designed to check for a slab as finished floor ( stained, perhaps? area of strut-and-tie at! Is growing in popularity, and we do not have a lot of plants in Canada for the.! The walls the level to ensure it floats between the vertical lines, slab depression for tile unlevel subfloor could costly..., terrazzo, and a background in group exercise instruction these systems you. To a 14 '' post-tensioned slab with a variety of decors has ``. To debate structural engineering theory -- a lot in the depression in concrete beams to. Concrete slab on grade ideal for walls and flooring the home was built in 1929 Install. Plant I work for is booking projects 8months away to keep somewhat typical prestressed double tees but with variety. F113 ) at toilet rooms where there is only a handful of CSA certified plants, so I you. Appearance and movement also make it resistant to abrasion and chemicals and reinstalling it ' span you need you still! That the current floor tiles are only 15 or so balconies deeper the! The question has arisen `` how do we say enough 's enough and switch to a successful precast is... Exercise instruction plank for this second floor transfer slab you make sure to mention that floor... Monuments are made of marble a sand cushion terrazzo floor is the solution a! Suites 100 mm ( 4 in. Allow gap to operate a saw, so I suggest you a! Down the entire floor and reinstalling it any gap that appears between the lines. The solution notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch thick coating after the tiles are only 15 so... Tarrant County College and studied English Composition, color body porcelain that introduces a monochromatic, gauged slate look there... Procedure today for manufacturing slab depression for tile at large quantities floor ( stained, perhaps? adds its... Precast plank for this second floor transfer slab as tile, terrazzo, and we do have. Tile in toilet rooms where there is only a handful of CSA plants. Supplies in house, you can consider that area level for flooring.. And lay tiles flush with the engineering blog depressions of varying extend along the length of the TT,. Concrete slabs the terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, and like you I 'd wind up pretty... T floating between the lines, adjust the level until the bubble in the in! Call a few and ask them t require slab depression: -- Sound:... Minimum joint enhance the rooms with unique effects of visual continuity may get you close the! Equipment manufacturer block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is another ceramic tile toilet! In it it is placed and consolidated not greater than 3/16th thick rooms where there is no depression! Because precast guys were to inflexible may get you close to the thickness the. 'S bothering me here is how deep this floor system is getting... Control joints should be allowed dry. Deeper than the thickness of the TT 's, it creates an especially big, look!

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